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Sudirman Plaza Jakarta 1.1

Office Building from Jakarta

  1. fayeddd

    fayeddd Governor

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    fayeddd submitted a new resource:

    Sudirman Plaza Jakarta - Office Building from Jakarta

    Read more about this resource...
     
  2. Birk LeGlaire

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    Hy fayeddd,
    Your mod is certainly very well for the disign player. But for the manager player, it does not respect management rules. Its surface is 3600 (~ 36 * 100), like the surface of an office T3 60*60. Great ! Your mod respects the ratio of surface! There is very litle respecting this ratio.
    But why to change the properties of functioning ? The T3 office of the basic game needs 1 AllAm, 3 Suits and 2 Elites when your mode needs 1 AllAm, 4 Suits and 4 Elites. T3 produces 480 ROFF_0 for 20 RHOT_0 and 80 RIN3_0 when your mod produces 1500 ROFF_0 for the same input. The ratio of growth of the office chain is not respected. In basis game every new office level doubles the resources input and output. With your data, the production is more than tripled when the resources asked are not even doubled. What facilitates to much the play.
    It that possible for you to change this properties ?
    So you mod will be perfect !
     
  3. fayeddd

    fayeddd Governor

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  4. fayeddd

    fayeddd Governor

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    actually i didnt know what i was doing when changing those things. thanks for reminding me. the mod is updated
     
    Birk LeGlaire likes this.
  5. Monty

    Monty Governor

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    Hey Birk, It would be cool if you can make a guide/tutorial explaning these concepts. What's seems a little off is to only consider surface instead of volume and other characteristics of the building. For example an office building that has a base of 20x20 but it's 10 stories tall should produce/consume about the same amount of resources that a 40x40 5 stories tall building, don't you think?

    Maybe we can make a little excel file to calculate these things so modders only have to enter the values. I have a little excel file somewhere that calculates jobs/mantenience costs.
     
    Birk LeGlaire and fayeddd like this.
  6. fayeddd

    fayeddd Governor

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    ah i am agree with this! it would be great if you guys can do so
     
  7. Birk LeGlaire

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    Great, very great ! First of all I'm very happy to see you to react on this question. I thought that the aspect management did not interest you. I felt a little bit alone. And your proposal to draft a guide pleases me so much... as far as there is of the interest by the community.

    And now let me explain why I only consider the surface and not the volume. It is because the game does not consider the height (thus the volume) as a resource. When I build a residence with a base of 20x20, I consume 400 surface of a limited map. And a residence with a base of 40x40, 1600. But I can build a residence with 5 stories, 10, of even more, 100 !, I don't consume anything, the sky is unlimited(*). Thus because the two buildings don't cost the same price (or don't consume the same), they should not produce the same too.

    Now we could consider that the height is a resource too, that we have to pay. What would be very exciting for the management gameplay! But the game does not offer a simple mechanism which allows to limit easily the heights (or I don't kwnow it). If you look at the caracteristics of basis game buildings, the height is not considered in the calculation of the consummate or produced resources. The residence h_suibob07_t3, with a height of 257 m, has the same characteristics as the residence h_suibob05_t3, 61 m. Consummation, production, cost, maintenance etc, are the same. Now we can change that, the price for example. But it is a very big job to do very carefully if we dont want to brocken the balance of the game. There is so much parameters to consider.

    Good. Like I told you, I'm realy interested to write such a little guide for the management rules, if you support me. Because if you do not see any interest, this work will be for nothing. You have too much influence in the community.

    (*) because God is living there....
     
  8. Birk LeGlaire

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    Good, realy good. Nice news.
     
  9. Birk LeGlaire

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    I let you read the answer I did to Monty. And I hope we will do so.
     
  10. secpol

    secpol Mayor

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    Hi Birk, I do not play the game a long time, I only interested in modding. You want to say that the game understands only fixed sizes 40x40, 20x20 etc. 40x42 does not understand?

    Снимок1.png
    I am opposed to unnecessary areas, it will look unnatural, even if this area than and fill.
     
  11. secpol

    secpol Mayor

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    Birk, Your mods is also not ideal, I already wrote to you, animation without people resembles the novels of Stephen King. You have lights out of the law of gravity:
    gamescreen0001.jpg gamescreen0002.jpg
    Or you texturing perfect:
    gamescreen0004.jpg gamescreen0005.jpg

    Finish selection:

    This is a big pleasure to see nice buildings that are management compliant.

    How do I review a mod?

    I estimate only the mods which respect the management rules of the game which are defined in the technical documentation at page 7:
    A building T1 or T2 must have a carpet of 40*40 and a T3 of 60*60. Other dimensions are possible, but they must be close to the ratio: occupation (or production) / carpet size. ie residences ratio are 0.000625 (T1), 0.00125 (T2), 0.00138 (T3)

    The criteria:
    ✔ granular textures (the smoother textures gives a playmobil look like in Skyline)
    ✔ own meterial for each opened volumes (doors, windows, wall column, etc.).
    - at least once exclusion by opened volume.
    ✔ complexe structures (roast in front of a window, balcony or room excavated, etc).
    ✔ not repetitive material: used material is not uniform or repetitive.
    ✔ non uniform enlightening (windows are enlightened in a various and not repetitive way ).
    - Special effects (outside Lighting other than "streetlight", Animation, etc.)

    Every filled criteria gives a star. Thus the mod does not have to perform all the criteria to receive 5 stars.
    But a mod with poor structures and material, with a repetitive night lighting will have only a star.


    That's why he and Modding, they engaged fans rather than professionals. Not in this game is no mathematical model.
    If there is, then it does not work.

    I do not see the problem in Base Size: 103x36

    Nothing personal, Sorry if I was harsh...
     
    OmniusPrime likes this.
  12. Birk LeGlaire

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    I know that my mods are not perfect. And I'm not wating perfection from other mods too. It is why the criterias i'm using give 7 stars ant not 5. Also there is 2 stars for imperfections.

    Now about your question "Why this is unnecessary area ?", I will only answer if you are ready to accept a different view without having to specify that your speech is not personal and to excuse you for being hard. A good argumentation is never personal or hard. Thus we don't neet to precise it with good arguments.
     
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  13. Birk LeGlaire

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    Hi Fayeddd

    Thank you for your like.
    As you can notice it, there is few modders interested in the aspect management of the game. I am wrong maybe, but I do not think that Monty is really interested.
    Personally I find this aspect exciting. How to integrate buildings on lot other than 40x40 or 60x60 without modifying the balance of the game is a very interesting question. Let us take the example of a given surface 60*60 which can receive more residents because we can build buildings 30*30 with the characteristics of a building 60*60. First we will have a bigger tax income. But not only. We shall also have more employees, thus more factories running. What give more industrial income and more tocken to exchange. Developping big cities will be much easier.
    Also if we want to keep the balance of the game and doing the game not so easy, we could of course change the caracteristic of building. But it is not so easy. We can try to increase the maintenance cost of a building 30*30. But how much? It is not easy to know because the resident can go to work as well in a farm as in a HT. And more residents for the same surface produces probably more "social" costs: education, security etc. But how much?
    Also for me this problem is realy interesting but not so easy. And I'll probably analyse all this things. And if you stil remain interested, I will share the information with you. But in a private way.
    I do not want to hurt modders because their modds are not compliant with the management rules. But they are two ways to play the game. None is better. They are only different.
     
  14. Mr.X²

    Mr.X² Moderator

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    hey, u already know i personally dont care that much about management :D
    but maybe u can write a list of different base or building sizes (including the non-standard ones like 30x30 and so on) and their recommended settings for its class file.. id be willing to adjust these settings in my future mods then and i guess others would do so too :) sth like a "tutorial" here on xln maybe?
    for me its very important to not only have standard sizes cause i prefer doing wall to wall buildings without a base ;)
     
  15. secpol

    secpol Mayor

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    To be honest, I did not like that you have the responsibility to assess the work on his own, you clear criteria, your community did not give such powers, another question if the community collectively decided, I've questions would not arise.
    As for the gameplay, count area, but you must be sure of the correct in the Artist Technical Document 2012 does not say anything. I do not mind the correct calculations. But I will not use the standard base. Excuse me.
     
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  16. Birk LeGlaire

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    Sorry, I don't know what is your problem! But thank you to write that I have clear criteria. For me it is a good think. Thank you very much.
     
  17. secpol

    secpol Mayor

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    I have not got problems, expect your model, I would not hurt you)
     
  18. secpol

    secpol Mayor

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    I do not publish on this site
     
  19. Birk LeGlaire

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    Well well well. If yourself ask me recommended settings which you'll try to ajust in your comming mods, I believe that I cannot refuse any more to write some lines on the subject! ;)
    But I do not know if it is really possible. The main idea is actually to impute to building a maintenance cost to compensate the earnings resulting of a stronger density of citizens. But I don't know if the <UpKeepCost> is processed in a residence .class file too. I'm not sure because of these sacred programmers of CXXL.
    Then it is necessary to estimate the productivity of a citizen. More stronger the citizens density is more tocken I can exchange. Yet as the citizen can work in a store or in a grain silo, the productivity can be triple. It is thus necessary to establish the buildins distribution of a well-balanced city: percentage of farms, silo, store, factory etc.
    Rest still the taxes which depend on our fiscal policy.
    The story is not simple as you can read it.

    Nevertheless I appreciate largely your advenced thinking. To consider desires which are not yours, it is cool. And it motivates me to do this list.
     
  20. OmniusPrime

    OmniusPrime Executive

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    Birk LeGlaire,
    I tend to like fayeddd's work, especially his economic modeling which is more generous than others. Considering how anemic most buildings are economically in the game I enjoy when fayeddd makes his buildings produce more income, means we can build more service buildings. Not all buildings of the same size should produce the same income or economic resources, that's unrealistic! I hope you improve your beautiful buildings by making them more economically impressive.
     

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