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Nicaumenee

A pearl at Lake Michigan

  1. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate submitted a new resource:

    Nicaumenee - A pearl on Lake Michigan

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  2. Project_Oz

    Project_Oz Mayor

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    :oops:Sorry I'm not that good with words
     
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  3. axel

    axel Governor

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    And i love your city you made, thats a whole lot of work real nice mate (y)
     
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  4. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    Hey, @Inan, just some comments on your truly fair review: You're right, the Greek church looks incompatible. But we don't have that many different churches in the game, especially not smaller ones, and I did not want to use the big ones all the time (like St. Paul's Cathedral, that would have been out of place). So I had to go for a compromise there.

    And I think you mean some of the elites' mansions in the suburbs that look out of place, not? Once again, that was a necessary compromise -.-

    Concerning the parks, I have to say that I went for the more realistic approach there. You know me, you know how I love to build nice gardens and parks; but when I looked at the cities like Milwaukee, or Madison, I did not find pretty gardens anywhere near the downtown area :/ The closest you get is in Madison, where you have the Olbrich Botanical Garden about two kilometres away. The same holds true for other smaller cities in the area. I think Chicago with its Grant Park is quite the exception here. From what I read, I think that the areas close to the lakefront are oftentimes also impacted by floodings or storms, so I think that most cities just use boring greenery as flood protection areas along their shorelines. And sometimes, it just does not make sense to build a nice park.

    Also, you did a fantastic update for Ohpo, it really "rocks" ;) (y)
     
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  5. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Inner suburbs

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  6. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Downtown and Bridgend

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  7. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Southern Lakeside - famous hotels and mansions

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  8. Project_Oz

    Project_Oz Mayor

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    Now that I have seen almost the whole city, I will write you a longer review. Because I can no longer edit my review I am writing here.

    First of all, you must know that you have built some things that are highly appreciated here on xlnation, concepts that were highly promoted and you executed them very well, but I don't like them.

    Let's begin. What I like most is how you combined the buildings and the decorations to create a complex. For example the main Hospital, the harbor, the Old Harbor, the Museum of Contemporary Art, the park near the Sheraton Hotel, Administrative Seat of Nicaumenee County, Great Lakes Mall and the Nicaumenee Spa.... You had some very good ideas and I hope to see others soon. I like that you pay attention to details.

    I can't explain why and I think that some were quite difficult to build, but I didn't like Sherman Park Tunnel, Sheraton Hotel, Water Purification Plant, Barren Hill BRT Hub. It's like they're missing something.

    The second thing I liked was the suburb of Barren Hill. You gave it an air of simplicity and tranquility. I think the cemetery needs more greenery as at the moment it looks like a large car park. The thing that bothers me, however, is that you used roads with too large capacity. This is one of the things that here on xlnation is normal and many people use the largest possible roads, while for me I believe that in the suburbs the smallest roads should be used and only a large road should pass by to make the connection with the city. I hate when I see a large avenue full of low-density houses. There should be a row of medium or high density apartment buildings and houses behind them.

    The highway. One of the most important ideas here in xlnation. You must have it in every city. I don't understand why you most of you like to build a highway for a city with such a low density. Although you built it excellently, only in one place did I see a pillar a little above the road below, I don't think you should have built it, or if you did, it shouldn't have reached the downtown. When you posted parts of the city with the highway, they looked great, but when you show the whole city, it gave me the feeling that the highway passes through the village.

    Downtown and the island behind. This is where you lost me the most. If you hadn't written where Downtown is, I wouldn't have realized it. I think it is before the island:cautious:. For the island, you explained something to me about why you built it like that, but I can't get over the fact that there is a forest three to four buildings away from the tall buildings. If you had made the forest at least look like a park, but it's as if you ran out of ideas and just throw the forest. For me there should have been a spectacular area, an area for executives and elites with harbors for yachts. You have access to the lake from 3 ways and you built a forest. These two should be changed according to me. Either you would destroy most of the tall buildings and build more medium buildings to make it look more dense, or you would move the downtown to the island with taller buildings and in the current downtown you would make a transition from tall buildings to the suburbs. In my opinion, the suburb is the strong point of your city.

    Power lines and railway. I like how you built the power lines. I saw that you took some ideas from Drazicdesign. I hope to succeed in implementing some of your ideas in my city. However, at the Interchange near Sherman Park, you build a very strange power line. I would have built it under the bridge, not over the interchange. I also don't like the railway in that area. Did you narrow the railroad tracks so you could build the bridge? The rest of the railway lines are very nicely built.

    Harbors. The industrial port is well done and I like that you didn't build it so crowded. You gave me some ideas how to build an industrial area. In my opinion, you should still have more ports for pleasure boats, especially on the island.

    That's about it. I hope I didn't forget something. If I figure it out, I'll write to you again.

    All in all, the city looks like 5 stars and I am most happy that you managed to build such a beautiful city and I hope you will build more.


    P.S. After 10 years of following you, I think that this city is built by someone else.:ROFLMAO:


    Happy new year!!!:toast:
     
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  9. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    Hey, @Project_Oz :) I really appreciate that you took your time for this detailed review! I think that most of your points are fair and well-balanced. I will try to explain some of the ideas behind the evolution of the city, maybe that clarifies most of your confusions :D ;)

    So first and foremost, keep in mind that my main objective has been to give a realistic image of a mid-sized American city with about 400,000 inhabitants. A city that grew over time, and that did not lose a high percentage of its population due to people moving into the suburbs. Given this objective, the first dilemma arose: I oftentimes had to decide between grandeur and pomp on the one side, and function-orientated design and fiscal austerity on the other side. This is part of the reason why some of the structures, as well as some of the park areas look rather boring. Yes, Millennium Park in Chicago looks awesome, but it has cost the city a fortune (here a link to the financial situation concerning the park). In turn, this has lead to a lack of funding for other important municipal services, worsening the already strained financial conditions of the city and the state. So yes, I would have loved to create more playful gardens throughout the city, and I would have loved to design pompous transportation hubs (as in Chicago, or New York City), but this would simply not have reflected the reality of most American cities.

    So, you're absolutely right, the Barren Hill BRT Hub looks quite function-centric. And some parts of the Downtown shorelines look quite boring. Maybe I will upgrade the hub in the future, but not that soon :D And you are right about the water purification plant as well. But have you seen the purification plants in Chicago, or Milwaukee? They look much worse than mine, I'd say :ROFLMAO:

    Let's go through your points :)
    Yeah, the cemetery is not the nicest one. Maybe I will add some plants there. I had created some nice small graveyards elsewhere, though :D
    Register or to view Spoiler content!

    And no, the roads are not too wide for an American city. If that's what you are thinking, you need to update your image of the USA :p You may not like it, but it's totally realistic for American cities to have those wide roads even in the suburbs.
    Register or to view Spoiler content!

    Also, I don't think that the roads in Barren Hill are too wide. I mean, the only 30m road running right through the disctrict's center has several medium-sized buildings nearby.
    Register or to view Spoiler content!

    Once again, I think that just reflects the American way :D I collected some examples from some mid-sized Midwestern American cities.
    Register or to view Spoiler content!

    First of all, it's not a forest :p It actually has some small natural paths, which, I admit, are hard to see.
    Teaser_195.jpg

    You also have a restroom there. So it's truly not a forest :D And I did surely not run out of ideas there ;) I get your argument. One would expect another park, another garden-like structure. And probably even some more residential houses instead of a park. My argument is the following: The current isolated position of the area on the island does not make it attractive for houses or offices to be built there, without first having to revamp the whole area.
    Teaser_196.jpg
    You see that there is only nice connection to the existing street network (close to the parking lots), so I think that one would need to change the area before establishing some new real estate. Concerning the look of the park area: Well, I don't see a problem there. You have Stanley Park next to Downtown Vancouver, which _is_ a forest. You have lots of cities that have natural reserve areas adjacent to the downtown area, e.g. in Green Bay:
    Teaser_211.jpg Once again, I get your point, one may expect something different. But that's just not always the case in reality :b40:

    Yes, some images of Kent inspired me :) Have you used the Power Lines? I get your criticism, but it's just due to the way the mod is designed. It's a bridge, with pillars coming up every now and then. So you take this into account, which makes it sometimes impossible to place it in a really nice manner. I tried, trust me -.-

    The railways at the edge of Sherman Park were built this way in full intent (y) Have a look:
    Teaser_194.jpg
    The lefternmost railways stop just before the highway bridge. There is a service stop right before the bridge, which played a more important role before the demolition of the railroad network in the 1960s. Furtheremore, I narrowed the lines even further in front of the railroad bridge to create a 'pain point'. In the US, the railroads are mostly owned by the freight railroad companies, and they give their own trains a right-of-track over e.g. Amtrak trains also using the railways. As the modern freight trains have become longer and longer, this can lead to long waiting periods for passenger trains operated by other companies. Hence, as there are only two railways running below the railroad bridge, Amtrak trains may need to wait. And this may also influence plans to revive local commuter trains using those tracks :D Why would I want to have such a 'pain point' in my city? Well, to reflect on reality, of course. Have a look at the commuter lines operating in the US. Many commuter companies are suffering from these problems :/


    Concerning the ports for pleasure boats: Well, there are two marinas for sailing yachts in Downtown, there is a lift for yachts. There is another large marina just outside Bridgend. I think that's sufficient. I mean, if you look at Milwaukee, for example, then you can see that there are mid-sized marinas that are located far outside the downtown area (where the rich people live :D ).
    Teaser_215.jpg

    Thank you once again for your in-depth review (y) And have a happy new year yourself as well!!!
     
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  10. Project_Oz

    Project_Oz Mayor

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    I understand that you want to do as in reality, but in the game, i think, you cannot recreate. If you look at the pictures posted by you from google maps, you can see how the big roads create blocks of houses. In that block of houses, the small streets get lost among the houses. The highway as well. Because the cities are so big, you barely notice it. While in the game, in my opinion, the size of the streets are too big compared to the buildings and instead of playing cities xl you play cities in motion or railroad tycoon because there the streets and train lines are more important than the city.

    But maybe with this airport I can explain better how I see it.
    Like the streets here on xlnation people like to build realistic airports and ports. In this picture you can see a big airport, but because the city is so big around it, it doesn't seem that big anymore.
    Teaser_215.jpg


    And now there is a picture of what many of you are doing in the game.
    Untitled.png

    You are building the airport itself very nicely. But after you build the airport, you no longer have space for a city . And I sit and look at the picture and wonder..... where is the city?

    Another example would be the highway interchange. Compare a custom highway interchange with the one in the game (in platinum it's a mod that lets you build over it). The one in the game is so compact that you don't even see it if you build buildings right next to the road.
    You have no idea how much I want for a moder to create more interchanges. I would be tempted to use more the highways.
    But as I said, many people like it, so I don't object but I try not to give a review to such cities.



    I have to admit that I haven't used it yet. I think that you built the highway the first time and you could not build under it. For several times I managed to build the landscape under the bridge and after that I built the bridge. But it's more how much luck do you have. You can try.
    In your case I would have built the power line up to the bridge, maybe I would have hidden the end behind a tree and on the other side of the highway I would have started another power line. Normally, you can't see the lines from above in the pictures only the pillars and even if you had taken a close-up picture, you would have been able to tell that the line passes under the bridge or is build underground. But I would bet that you would be the only one who would have blame such a thing.

    I understand you. It happens to me all the time. I'm building something that has technical and practical significance and I really like it, but when I zoom out and see how it fits with what I've built around it, I'm shocked at how ugly it is.

    A small deviation.
    "I'm sorry I learned from you. The bridge with the bus line. It must be redone, the beginning is too steep."



    Thank you. I saw that you posted a picture of how you delimited the city and now it's clearer to explain.

    If you had replaced the highway that comes from Barren hill in brindgend with some buildings, maybe it would look better, but it is debatable.

    In any case, if you had built the city as in the picture below, I could have said that your city would be the most beautiful, if not the second, that was created in Cities xl.
    But you built Downtown. In itself it looks like a smaller city, but when you stuck it to the other side of the city, you destroyed them both. I don't know how to describe it to you. Something you didn't build well, the transition between them? something there for me is not in order.
    Teaser_191.jpg

    With pleasure it was your merit. I just hope I wasn't too harsh. But next time I will return to my 1 maxim 2 row reviews. Don't expect more.

    Thx.
     
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  11. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    Hmmh... I understand where you are coming from - if the city is vast enough, you gloss over the small roads, or barely notice them. But I have to object to parts of your criticism. I mean, in the end, once Nicaumenee is finished, you may not recognize every single small road any longer. You will rather gloss over it, as you do when you look at Google Maps. But it will take some time for me to gradually finish the rest. And it also depends on the perspective :D Also, as you may be right concerning other cities where half the map is covered by a vastly oversized airport, I did not put any megastructures onto the map so far. Yes, there will be a large marshalling yard, but it's nothing compared to an airport. And I also did not place some oversized harbour there. There will be a large bulk terminal, but there will not be any huge container terminal :D Furthermore, concerning the highway exist or interchanges in Nicaumenee - I think they are quite compact. Where I thought I would make sense, I made them wider.
    And, on a side note, I find your general criticism concerning "players putting oversized megastructures on regular maps" a bit insincere, given that you yourself just lately placed a huge volcano, as well as a wide dam structure on one map :p And wasn't there a military basis as well? ;) [Don't get me wrong though, every single structure you have shown looks fantastic! I love the volcano, and the dam is gorgeous :xllove: ]

    About the power lines - well, in the end, I can just demolish them and say they are running underground. I mean, when it comes to power lines, no mod will come close to reflecting reality. So all I can do here is give an impression. Furthermore, the mod is difficult to handle, especially when you want to place longer running lines. It mostly takes me 15 minutes and 3 trials to construct longer lines. And sometimes it's really impossible to build it where you want to. But I don't want to abstain from the lines, they are still central to the image of the suburbs.

    Of course it would have looked better :) But not realistic concerning the way I imagined the traffic pouring into the downtown and harbour area :)

    Well, about the transition between Downtown and Bridgend - there is simply no role model city that I could have looked at. There is no US city with its downtown located on a small island which is separated from the mainland only by an insignificant stretch of water. So I had to look at similar patterns - e.g. a creek separating downtown from the rest of the city on one side. Here you can see the situation in Cleveland. It's a bit similar, the road bridges are place quite high above the waters. Similar patterns can be found in Portland, Seattle, or Vancouver. And, to a smaller degree, even in Milwaukee. Given that any larger American city has interstates leading directly to the downtown area, I found it reasonable to place the interstates close to downtown, and to add complex exit structures there.
    Teaser_217.jpg

    Edit: One thing that I personally dislike is the vast space that the southern bridge (with the bus bridge in between) takes away. But it was planned to look this ugly. I wanted to create a functional monstrosity there. And I actually like how realistically monstrous it looks, compared to what you can find in US cities :D But it was also initially planned to later changed it to a modest level, demolishing some of the overkill parts. But that plan was then put aside due to time constraints, and because such a revamp demands a lot of planning. But maybe I can get back to that :)

    About the other point: If Downtown had not existed, Bridgend would surely not have looked like the way it does. It would have a harbour along the shoreline, and a whole warehouses row right next to said harbour. Furthermore, the street grid would look quite regular, compared to how it looks now. All the important structures that are placed in Downtown (bus terminal, central station, stadium, and so on) had instead to be placed in Bridgend, which would have changed Bridgend's morphology in a drastic, and probably negative manner. So I think that the apparent 'beauty' of Bridgend heavily relies on the existence of the Downtown area :)

    That being said, I once again thank you for your reasonable arguments and your input! I meanwhile changed parts of the Downtown 'park' to make it look like a real park ;)
    Register or to view Spoiler content!
     
  12. Inan

    Inan Governor

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    I like the updates a lot. There are so much details, all the small parking spaces at the building complexes, little walls and greenerys, all the nicely designed basegrounds of the buildings, the highway junctions are also well done and masterplanned. Actually the whole city is, it seems you have done it on a drawing board before. Congratulations. And a really well thought background information of the city. As mentioned, i envy you for the perfect curves-mod, the new railways and the new esplanades walls-mod by DD, it does magic at all structures on hills and rocks! But i would have liked the hospital more to be a coherent complex instead of that different styles of buildings connected with "gateways"...

    I am looking forward for more updates!

    PS: What did you do, that the buslanes are only used by busses?
     
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  13. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    I did not do anything, I just used the Bus Mod by DrazicDesign :dmc7:

    Thank you for your kind words! It really means a lot to me :) Actually, I did plan ahead a lot of the districts. But I have to admit that I started building the map in a rather discontinuous manner. I built a bit on the downtown island, then I worked on parts of the marshalling yard, added some highways. I bet you can comprehend that I built the structures once I was sure about their look from a local and global, as well as a societal perspective. So, for example, I built the southern parts of the harbour once I was sure how to connect it to the city's highways and freeways, and once I was further sure on the harbour itself could look like. What kind of goods could be stored where, how to place the railroads, and so on. And I took me a while to figure everything out from the local and the global perspective, and then even from the societal perspective.
    To be more precise: On a local level, I had to figure out how to place e.g. the grain silos, how to actually construct the whole complex with its railways and so on. On a global level, I had to figure out e.g. how to connect the harbour to the city's road network, and vice versa (they rely on each other). You don't see everything yet on the images, but the harbour is actually quite well-connected to the interstate network, even though there is no direct access.
    Register or to view Spoiler content!
    From a societal perspective, I had to figure out if it made sense to place e.g. a grain silo there. Yes, Wisconsin is a grain exporter, but there are only a few harbours along the Great Lakes that actually export grain. And as a counterexample, a large container terminal would not have made any sense there; you simply don't have something like this along the Great Lakes. For you building in a fictional country, it may be easier to justify surprising structures. But setting up a new city and figuring out how the rest of the state/the nation would have changed or not changed was kind of hard :D

    Yes, the mods by @Drazicdesign helped a lot, they are magical! :xllove: Concerning the hospital: I would also liked it differently, but I don't think it would have been realistic if you have a single structure containing everything the hospital needs. I mean, if you look at today's clinics, they have all grown over time, including new facilities and the like. E.g. the university hospital at Madison, Wisconsin:
    Teaser_229.jpg
    You clearly see how it developed around the medium-sized complex in the center. And the styles are also differing a bit. In the center, you have this function-centric complex, at the sides, you have e.g. the American Family Children's Hospital with its glassy facades at its sides.

    Thank you once again! And concerning your Maglev line: I would make make it into a real update, otherwise people won't notice you added something to the CJ of South Point ;)
     
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  14. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Big Update

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  15. Drazicdesign

    Drazicdesign Ambasidor

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    My dear Kipate,
    It's awesome what you did!
    Don't change a thing, it's just a treat for the eyes!(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
     
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  16. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    New Photos & Culture and Entertainment Spots

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  17. axel

    axel Governor

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    Holy macaroni, looking good mate, lots of work you put in
     
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  18. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Full Map

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  19. kipate

    kipate Governor

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    kipate updated Nicaumenee with a new update entry:

    Last Update - Part 1

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  20. Project_Oz

    Project_Oz Mayor

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    Hey, I really liked what I saw in Lawndale. St. Andrews Cathedral and Lawndale Commons turned out great. Lawndale Heights Park seems to me to be too much and crowded, to overdone (On full map overview fit perfectly). But the cathedral and the other park are simple, stylish and besides that it fits perfectly where you built them. What else I really liked, but I saw this almost everywhere in your city, are the intersections where you used bridges and most of all the way you combined the buildings, you added a park, a parking lot...something and it came out completely different, you didn't just put building next to building.

    Grovetown Yards, I said before, it looks great. I think that this is where your specific style is best seen, creating something complex from a few buildings, roads and decorations. However, one thing bothers me. It looks deserted. Especially in overviews. I would like to see more ships. Let me see a route, a few stray ships at the edge of the map that are and more and more ships near the entrance and in the harbor.

    The marshalling yards. The beginning and the end look very good. A few months ago I would have said that the middle with perfectly straight lines looks the same. But since @chupobumbo posted the airport and its chaotic train station I would like to see more chaos. Maybe it would look much better if you planted some trains, but from what I can see, I don't think you can align the trains with the lines. Try to convince skullz613 to modify the trains so that you can snap them to the road (he modified Nickos' boats and so I was able to plant the boats in other angles not just 45 degrees).
    On the full map overview, I really like the marshalling yard placed near Grovetown Yards. I like how you made the transition from the port to the residential area (the Harbor is very clearly visible, but next to it is that brown line it that made me curious. What can it be? And when you enlarge the image, you realize that it is a marshalling yards. I like these transition).
    Above, even if you wrote that the city is a railway junction and that's how American cities are, I for one don't like it. It seems too big to me.

    Overall, I recommend everyone to study your city. It can be seen that you have put your heart, dedication and patience into and apart from the airport, you have built everything possible in this game. We will not find another city with such details as in your city. Congratulations!!
     
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